SongShow Plus

Version 5.5 > XP SP2/ATI/SSP

iamgap

7/17/2005 12:33:50 PM

I really would like to end the enoying complaints by Windows to install SP2. Will SSP7 allow us to upgrade to SP2, or is this a video driver/SP2 issue?

gap

Karen39

7/17/2005 2:04:09 PM

I have Songshow Plus installed on both of my home computers and I have also installed Windows SP2 and I don't have any trouble. I haven't installed Windows Service Pack 2 on the computer at church yet though because I need to do it when I have enough time just in case something goes wrong.

Karen

Lee

7/17/2005 4:25:14 PM

Many users testify that SSP 5.5 lives comfortably with SP2; no need to wait for SSP 7 before upgrading to SP2.

osborn4

7/18/2005 9:11:49 AM

I think this is something that R-Technics and Fowler need to clarify.

If the problem really is only with ATI Radeon cards with 256MB of RAM and PCI-Express16 AND the problem is only with the preview panel AND they have a work around in thier most current version (As my numerous e-conversations have intimated) then they need to remove the blanket restriction on SP2.

We are running SP2 on our machine with a 256MB PIC-Express ATI Radeon card and are not having troubles with SP2.

dreece

7/18/2005 12:35:04 PM

Despite a few lingering posts on the songshowplus.com site, we have tested SSP with Windows XP SP2 and actually recommend that users do upgrade to that service pack.

And, yes, there is presently an issue with 256MB ATI PCI-Express video cards, the use of the preview windows, and SP2. SSP works around this problem by not instantiating DirectX for the preview windows. This means simply that a few things, mainly visualizations, will not be rendered in the preview window. We consider this to be a defect in the ATI video drivers and hope that ATI will fix it soon. However, there are other things we intend to try that may address the problem on our end.

osborn4

7/18/2005 1:23:39 PM

You're right. It's no longer on the front page of SongShowPlus.com. And since the fowler forums were wiped out, it's probably not there anymore, either.

It's still too bad that, after all the time the warning against SP2 was on the front page of of SongShowPlus.com, that some sort of "All Clear" wasn't officially given. It just kinda trickled out in dribs and drabs.

Just my $.02US

iamgap

7/19/2005 9:57:42 AM

Posted By osborn4 on 07/18/2005 1:23 PM
You're right. It's no longer on the front page of SongShowPlus.com. And since the fowler forums were wiped out, it's probably not there anymore, either.

It's still too bad that, after all the time the warning against SP2 was on the front page of of SongShowPlus.com, that some sort of "All Clear" wasn't officially given. It just kinda trickled out in dribs and drabs.

Just my $.02US

I have a freshly rebuilt, basic, Dell GX270. I installed an ATI 9600 w/256MB. I updated windows completely, to include SP2. I installed SP2, and remaining updates last just in case I needed to unsinstall SP2. I then installed SSP's latest release. When it started, it complained about not being able to find DirectX... and closed. I then uninstalled SP2, and SSP opened without issue.

When VBS is over, I can fairly easily backup my data and rebuild the PC again if someone wants to put in some TS effort. This is my workstation, so it won't affect production.

gap

Lee

7/20/2005 12:04:41 PM

Posted By iamgap on 07/19/2005 9:57 AM

...I updated windows completely, to include SP2. I installed SP2, ... it complained about not being able to find DirectX...
gap

Something that is curious is that DirectX 9.0c is part of the SP2 installation. Off hand it sounds as if the SP2 installation was not done correctly.

iamgap

7/20/2005 7:15:35 PM

Posted By Lee on 07/20/2005 12:04 PM

Posted By iamgap on 07/19/2005 9:57 AM

...I updated windows completely, to include SP2. I installed SP2, ... it complained about not being able to find DirectX...
gap

Something that is curious is that DirectX 9.0c is part of the SP2 installation. Off hand it sounds as if the SP2 installation was not done correctly.

If SP2 wasn't installed correctly, it would have to be a M$ issue. I downloaded the full file, and installed at my leasure.

gap

cg_00

7/20/2005 8:33:51 PM

I installed it with the distributal pack (220++MB) No problem for me

Randeon 9200
Athlon XP 2400+
1gb Mem

iamgap

7/22/2005 8:47:29 PM

Well, I rebuilt the PC again. Went through the slow and tedious process of windows update (step-by-step) to build up to and include SP2. I then installs M$ Office, and then install SSP.

The following folder used by SongShow Plus was missing:
"C:\Documents and Settings\All
Users\Documents\R-Technics\SongShow Plus\Media
Files\DVD". It has been automatically created.
Preview panel alert: Unable to use DirectX for Display
Preview. Reason: Internal error occured. SongShow Plus can
still run, but some features may be unuseable without
DirectX.
Preview panel alert: Unable to use DirectX for Next Slide
Preview. Reason: Internal error occured. SongShow Plus can
still run, but some features may be unuseable without
DirectX.
Preview panel alert: Unable to use DirectX for Cue Preview.
Reason: Internal error occured. SongShow Plus can still run,
but some features may be unuseable without DirectX.

I figure OK, it is just an Alert, and I can still play videos. Then I got this error:

Unable to use fill type: Video File. Reason: File not supported:
F:\Documents and Settings\All
Users\Documents\R-Technics\SongShow
Plus\Videos\WorshipScapes\PW_loop_035_WorshipScapes_m2v1.mpg.
Reason: The codec necessary to play this file is not installed on this
system or is not compatible with this application. Solution: Install the
necessary codec for this file
Preview panel alert: Unable to use fill type: Video File. Reason: File not
supported: F:\Documents and Settings\All
Users\Documents\R-Technics\SongShow
Plus\Videos\WorshipScapes\PW_loop_035_WorshipScapes_m2v1.mpg.
Reason: The codec necessary to play this file is not installed on this
system or is not compatible with this application. Solution: Install the
necessary codec for this file

Ooops, forgot to install WinDVD. Installed WinDVD and I received the Alerts about the preview and the Next, but it did play video backgrounds. Now I am getting these Alerts:

Preview panel alert: Unable to use DirectX for Display
Preview. Reason: Internal error occured. SongShow Plus can
still run, but some features may be unuseable without
DirectX.
Unable to use the Display Preview window.
Preview panel alert: Unable to use DirectX for Next Slide
Preview. Reason: Internal error occured. SongShow Plus can
still run, but some features may be unuseable without
DirectX.

Followed by this error:

Exception EAccessViolation in module 'rmeslide.dll' at 000041E4
Access Violation at address 1FF141E4 in module 'rmeslide.dll' read of address 000000F8

When I click OK, I get the Winblows bug report. WHen I click don't send, SSP closes. Reinstalling SSP to 'repair' it makes no change. Uninstalling SP2 to see what happens

gap

Karen39

7/23/2005 6:09:44 AM

Let us know what happens. Why did you have to rebuild your computer to begin with? Have you called tech support? I am still wondering if it really is SP 2. Does your computer have the requirements necessary to run 5.5? One codec I really like is Divx. It is a free download from them and really has improved the quality of the videos we use.

iamgap

7/23/2005 8:41:44 AM

Posted By Karen39 on 07/23/2005 6:09 AM
Let us know what happens.

I forgot to remove the secondary HDD (backup data) before rebuilding, and M$ in its infinite wisdom (yeah, right) decided that the data in that drive needed to be migrated to the system drive, and then used the seconday drive ast the default locations. SO now I am moving that data back, and rebuilding again with the secondary drive disconnected.

Why did you have to rebuild your computer to begin with?

It is a recently acquired PC that I loaded SSP on, it has an ATI 256mb card, and I received errors (actually alerts) when running SSP. Since it is only a workstation system, I decided to do a wipe and reload to find out just what is causing my problems.

Have you called tech support? I am still wondering if it really is SP 2.

I guess it's because I am not tired now, but I think the problems may start AFTER I install the Symantec CE client. I did receive the alerts before, but SSP didn't crash until after I installed the AV client. I hope that isn't the case, as the church is just about to purchase SAV 10 for the server and all the clients. Calling tech support doesn't seem to fit in my schedule here lately

Does your computer have the requirements necessary to run 5.5? One codec I really like is Divx. It is a free download from them and really has improved the quality of the videos we use.

We purchased the complete FowlerInc system, and it came with a Dell GX270. I managed to acquired (on some barter work) a GX270 that was purchased around the same time. The only difference is the DVD player, and CDrom drive (and now the video card). I have installed WinDVD as apposed to the Dell partnered PowerDVD to make sure it is using the same codecs as the Porjection PC. I will DL Divix, thanks for the tip.

Back to the rebuilding.

gap

Karen39

7/23/2005 3:04:00 PM

Have you tried running any other applications that use DirectX9? Do they work? Just a thought . . .

Lee

7/23/2005 6:24:28 PM

Since one of the error advisories is that SSP couldn't use DirectX (as opposed to not being able to find it) you might want to assure yourself of its installation by doing a Program-Run-dxdiag (this is the Windows DirectX Diagnostic Tool) and observing the DirectX Version on the bottom line of the System tab, and perhaps the DirectX features on the Display tab.

iamgap

7/23/2005 6:27:42 PM

I have put the txt file of event viewer of what happened to my SP2 install on the web incase anyone wants to figure out why it is failing. To find the Event Viewer entries click here.

I will first uninstall SAV to see what happens. If that doesn't fix it, I will do another fresh load if XP WITHOUT SP2.

Posted By Karen39 on 07/23/2005 3:04 PM
Have you tried running any other applications that use DirectX9? Do they work? Just a thought . . .

Not sure I know of any other DX9 programs to try.

gap

Lee

7/23/2005 6:34:22 PM

"Faulting application ssp.exe, version 5.5.0.214"

Do we know that this is a good version to be using? This facility doesn't have SSP for me to check, but I thought the current version is something like 5.5.3.4.

iamgap

7/23/2005 7:51:19 PM

Posted By Lee on 07/23/2005 6:34 PM
"Faulting application ssp.exe, version 5.5.0.214"

Do we know that this is a good version to be using? This facility doesn't have SSP for me to check, but I thought the current version is something like 5.5.3.4.

That is the version I get when I DL from the latest complete DL (6/13/2005). I believe that 5.5.0.214 is the file version, not the package version.

gap

Karen39

7/23/2005 8:05:05 PM

5.5.3.4 is the version I currently have and it is the latest version. I saved the file that I downloaded ssp from and it says, 2005-03-15 if that helps you any.

iamgap

7/23/2005 8:46:08 PM

Posted By Karen39 on 07/23/2005 8:05 PM
5.5.3.4 is the version I currently have and it is the latest version. I saved the file that I downloaded ssp from and it says, 2005-03-15 if that helps you any.

But do a search on your PC for the file SSP.exe, then right-click it, then click summary, and check the file version. Let us know what numbers it has.

gap

iamgap

7/23/2005 9:40:03 PM

I have officially confirmed that SSP 05.05.05.03.04 (ssp.exe file verison 5.5.0.214) has issues with XP SP2 on some ATI video cards.

After doing yet another fresh rebuild of XP, this time without SP2, SSP no longer crashes upon opening. I did two fresh rebuilds of XP with all updates (including SP2), one with SAV 9.0 CE client, and one without. Both would crash during or after the first run.

I did fresh reloads so no one could say there might be something else causing it. My rebuilds would go like this:
Delete partition
Install XP
Install hdwr drivers for Chipset, NIC, and Audio (with necessary reboots)
Run windows update 4-5 time (minus SP2 on last load)
DL latest ATI driver
Install Video driver with reboot
Extend desktop
Install office2k3 with updates
Install WinDVD
Install SAV (except on last load, when I installed it last to make sure it wasn't an issue)
DL SSP
Install SSP with all media, PPT, and SongSelect web, DL
Attempt to run SSP (successful without SP2)
(install SAV and run SSP again successfully on non-SP2 rebuild)

my SspInfo.html is here if anyone wants to view it.

gap

dreece

7/24/2005 12:40:50 AM

I'd like to know if this is similar to another ATI/SP2 problem we know of. Does this problem you describe go away if you hide the preview window panel then shutdown and restart SSP?

generush

7/24/2005 9:28:02 AM

iamgap posted :

Followed by this error:

Exception EAccessViolation in module 'rmeslide.dll' at 000041E4
Access Violation at address 1FF141E4 in module 'rmeslide.dll' read of address 000000F8

We're having the exact same problem on an older machine with a Nvidia MX440 video card on a 1GHZ P3. I know its a bare minimum machine, but it ran fine on SP2 until some point when either Windows or SSP was updated about January 2005. We ran fine on the first release of 5.5.

Our workaround is to not acknowledge the error message. If you just drag it off the screen SSP will still run basic words w/o recognizing directx.

generush@hotmail.com

iamgap

7/24/2005 9:53:10 AM

Posted By dreece on 07/24/2005 12:40 AM

I'd like to know if this is similar to another ATI/SP2 problem we know of. Does this problem you describe go away if you hide the preview window panel then shutdown and restart SSP?

I am not sure, but I don't think I want to try that. I have come to relying on the preview pane (especially in sermon notes) to make sure the next slide will diplay as anticipated.

I don't have a problem installing SP2, attempting it, and uninstalling SP2 if it will help you resolve the root problem. I just won't leave it that way. I can do without SP2, and deal with the extra steps necessary to keep Windows updated. Using MUS would be nice, but not at the expense of a crashing system.

gap

Lee

7/24/2005 5:13:41 PM

Interesting - so this means there are at least TWO bad video cards, first was an ATI PCI-Express card; now Sappphire's Radeon 9600 Atlantis (which is AGP, right?), and another post suggests a possibility of a third bad card.

I have not heard of Sapphire before this.

Rod

7/24/2005 6:08:31 PM

I have a Radeon 9800, 256 mg card in my 2nd computer (both running SP2), and had all sorts of problems with it recognising direct X when I installed SSP. It works ok but I cannot use the 3d visulisations as they are very choppy, yet my 9600 128 mg card is great??

dreece

7/25/2005 12:00:12 AM

We've been with the understanding that the ATI/SP2 problem was just with PCI-Express machines. We'll need to dig into this more and ensure that these are all related problems or if they are actually unrelated. Expect follow up contact...

The MX440 is not supported at all anymore for high-end graphics features. Early releases of 5.5 worked with this card, but with one of the SSP releases earlier this year, we finally dropped support for this level of card. It's just too underpowered for what we were attempting to accomplish with SSP, among other problems.

iamgap

7/25/2005 6:14:04 PM

I disable the preview pane, installed SP2 (and all subsequent updates), and the program does not crash. I tried closing and reopening, rebooting and opening, and all went well. I then enabled the preview pane, and only received alerts (no DX on the preview). When I closed and opened SSP, it generated the debug. I moved the debug to the side and closed the preview pane. When I closed and opened SSP, the preview pane was back, and it crashed again. I had to mark my screen (finger) where the X was for closing the preview pane, and attempt to close it before the debug kicked in. Once I succeeded in that, SSP runs normally. Albeit, without the preview pane.

You might try this if you want SP2 with an ATI card, AND can live without the Preview Pane.

gap

osborn4

7/25/2005 8:25:31 PM

We've got SP2 and and a 256 MB ATI Radeon x700 Pro and the preview pane on and don't have a problem like this.

We just don't get previews of the transitions and such.

I guess YMMV (or YMDV).

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