3/21/2006 6:06:57 AM

I've downloaded the latest Beta but haven't done anything with it yet.  Fear mostly.  Only computer worth testing it on is the projection machine for Sundays.  I would hate to foul it up.  Can v. 7 be installed in parallel with 5.5 so that we could drop back if needed?  How significant is the visible interface change?  Is there a significant learning curve for the 5.5 capabilities?  Or is it just the new capabilities?

-----Paul-----

3/21/2006 6:30:57 AM

Sorry. You can't run them side by side.

The change in the UI is not huge. None of my operators had any trouble making the switch. Some of the icons have changes (the green diamond is now a triangle inside of a square, to emulate a play button).

More windows to choose from. For instance, there are now 2 inspector windows, one for the database and one for the program. And a new window for the background improv feature. I just keep that one turned off, but that's me.

3/22/2006 12:43:20 PM

You can't install them in seperate folders and run them one at a time? I would think that you can....unless for some reason it uses shared resources....

3/22/2006 12:58:41 PM

No, you cannot use 5.5 and 7.0 together.  I believe you have to completely uninstall 5.5 before you install 7.0. 

3/22/2006 2:00:24 PM

You don't have to uninstall 5.5 before installing 7.  You can simply install 7 over the top. 

But no, they don't co-exist.  They do use the shared resources. 

3/22/2006 2:00:37 PM

No uninstall necessary. 7.0 will install right over 5.5.

But installing 7.0 will write over some of the 5.5 files.

I've tried to make the case before that people would be more apt to jump to a new version if they could run it along side the old version, so that fall back would be just clicking a different icon.

But there must be something in the architecture of SSP that makes this option not viable.

3/22/2006 6:20:00 PM

In just pretty much ALL cases, installing any software over top is usually NOT a wise idea. Backup/Restore your data (songs etc), uninstalll 5.5, and install 7. Especially when the program is beta. Because if all heck breaks loose, it's always a strong possibility that it's because you installed 7 on top of 5.5, and it's referencing to an old file or something; therefore not really being able to pinpoint whether the bug is actually version 7 or not.

That's my experience in windows and virtually any other software, if you want to prevent instabilities in your software. IE - Windows XP SP1, if you installed SP2 overtop, all chaos breaks loose. If you installed Windows XP SP2 slipstreamed (clean install), then no problems.

If you really really wanted to run the 2 side by side, you could always split the hdd, install a secondary windows xp, and run a dual-boot machine. But most likely it's not worth all the trouble.

I've just started to run v7 for Sunday and Wednesday youth, and I love it, aside from a few minor bugs/annoyances, but no crashes. So far so great!!

3/23/2006 12:10:03 AM

The SSP installer actually goes through and removes previous version files and registry settings, so it essentially does an uninstall as part of the install process. 

3/23/2006 8:11:38 AM

One of MS's unforgivable acts was popularization of the registry as place for storing program operational data. If programmers would go back to use .ini files, life would be much simpler for users. You could run versions of programs side by side and the user who paid for the programs would be in control of which set of glitches they preferred.

-----Paul-----

"If debugging is the process of removing errors from programs, what is programming?"

3/23/2006 11:22:25 PM

3/28/2006 2:40:02 PM

Will slideshows created in version 7 run in version 5.5?

I would like to install 7 at home and play with it for a few days before loading it at church. But I don't want to loose the ability to create the announcements, outlines, etc. at home.


Thanks,
Mike

3/28/2006 6:04:30 PM

I believe Karen has more experience with this, but I am certain you can.

3/28/2006 6:32:30 PM

No, I've never created them on 7.0 and then ran them on 5.5.  Sorry. 

3/28/2006 9:02:34 PM

Would it really hurt to install 7 at home and try? then revert to 5.5 if it doesn't work. I probably will work, just keep in mind if there are any new animations or feature, may not work in the older version. I myself have not tried this...

3/29/2006 12:04:37 AM

I happily created slide shows at home on V7 workstation, and packaging to go on to 5.5 projection machine for a long time while we were beta testing V7.. it's fine you wont have any hassles.

just remember not to use any of the new visulizations that come with V7. as it wont be able to find them....

Rod

3/29/2006 12:07:46 AM

You can try going backwards by using files built in V7 on 5.5. Many things will port backwards, but some things won't (like video effects). And as V7 evolves, more things will become less compatible with the old.

3/29/2006 12:49:19 PM

Thanks.. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear.. it works as long as the new V7 features are avoided.

I'll give it a try this weekend.

3/29/2006 11:19:29 PM

Please note that won't always be the case in the future.

3/31/2006 6:07:40 AM

Yeah, I'm not really intending to bust your chops about this and it certainly isn't just an SSP issue.  But it is a design philosophy thing.  If the designer sets out with the concept that it will be an independent app, then the process is much simpler than trying to backfit independence.  And, in a day of laptops with 100GB hard drives, file duplication is not so much a sin. 

Of course, if you make it completely independent, you also make it easier to pirate.  Balancing the issues is tough.  But the user's needs during changeover deserve more consideration, IMHO.

-----Paul-----

4/4/2006 12:35:50 AM

4/4/2006 4:12:02 PM

No, it is not you, I can see this being a major pain in the neck and causing far more problems then it solves. Frankly, I simply see no need to run them side by side. V7 is solid and ready for prime time IMHO.

4/4/2006 4:33:20 PM

When you right click on a file, it doesn't load anyway, so that doesn't matter.

Or is that finally fixed. I'm so used to it not working, that I never remember to check and see if you can get a program loaded by double clicking it.

4/4/2006 7:08:17 PM

Here's an off-the-wall idea for actually keeping both SSP 5.5 and 7.0 installed on the same computer.  I haven't tried it, but I suspect it would work:

Dual boot.

THIS IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART OR INEXPERIENCED!  Do a separate install of Windows (preferably XP) into a different directory than the primary install.  Do not allow the new install to overwrite or replace the existing OS.  You should be prompted at boot time to select the version of Windows you want to run.  Since each copy of Windows maintains its own registry, I believe you could then do a separate install of the other SSP version as well, and they would not interfere with each other.

I'm not saying I recommend this, I'm just pointing out that it might work in a situation where you absolutely MUST have both versions of SSP available for whatever reason.

Anybody know of a reason why this would not work?

Roger

P.S. I'm not planning to do it myself, except perhaps as a test on a 'scratch' machine.

4/4/2006 7:18:37 PM

This is what I suggested several posts back, and yes it will work. But you can only do one or the other at the time. If I wanted to do 5.5, then I'd boot into the 5.5 OS, if I wanted to do 7, I'd have to reboot and make sure I tell it to load in the OS with 7 on it.

I would recommend splitting the hard drives partion (or install on separate drive) rather than the same drive and in different folders. You can use Partition Magic to easily split it. And if you wanted to go back to one installation and one partition, you can easily do that as well.

4/4/2006 7:40:01 PM

There is a shareware utility out there called bootit NG, that is small enough to fit on a floppy. It is a partition manager and also allows dual boot. It only cost 35$ for a single license.

One thing you need to be aware of is that you will need to edit the Boot.ini file to boot to a partition other than the first one. Windows may do this automatically for you during an install, but if you image your first partition to the second partition (so you don't have to reinstall everything) the boot.ini file needs to be altered.

I believe Bootit NG will also allow you to image the first partition to the second partition.

4/6/2006 12:52:05 AM

I can honestly tell you that when I was writing that post, I thought to myself "Joel is going to make a wisecrack about this."

I, of course, was speaking about applications in general. If you have five different versions of Microsof Word installed on your machine, and you right-click on a .doc file, which version of Word do you expect to load? I don't think there is a clear answer, thus an likely confusion for both users and support persons.

4/6/2006 5:55:51 AM

When you double click on a .doc file, it will launch whatever program Winders has associated with a .doc file, usually the most recenetly installed version of Word.

If you right click and select "Open With...", you get a list of anything that says it will read a .doc file and can select which application you want to start up and load the doc file.

4/6/2006 7:42:52 AM

Trivial debate; Rick has it right. My vote is to limit cost expenditures to developing new and useful things.

4/6/2006 11:03:25 PM

I realize this, and it makes sense to me, but does it to the typical user? If you uninstall the last version you installed, what then? Again, I'm asking from a typical user perspective. Also, I'm not sure, but I don't know that the "Open With" will give you options to open the word document with all versions of Word that you have installed on your system (or perhaps it will, I don't know).

Anyway, I think I've made my point which is that there are some global settings and resources that make having multiple versions of an application a bit unwieldy.

In our case, however, it's the plug-in architecture that is the bigger issue.