Version 5.5 > cloning No "(2)"
3/7/2006 1:31:23 PM
Today I cloned a song. In 5.5 when one did this the cloned version had a "(2)" after the title to differentiate it from the parent song. In V 7 the two entries are titled exactly alike--DESPITE the SSP rule that does not allow any 2 songs to have the same title. Is this normal for cloning?
3/7/2006 1:37:49 PM
I actually just recently noticed this in version 5.5 also. Two
versions of the same song exactly the same. I've got 2 "Blessed
Be The Name" songs right here on my laptop at home. They're
exactly identical. I've never had version 7.0 installed on this
computer or the one at church.
3/7/2006 1:44:32 PM
There can be 2 of the same titles in different databases. I've seen this when I clone something out of our SongSelect database into the SSP database. There ends up being 2 songs with the same title.
3/7/2006 1:51:28 PM
Well, the weird thing is we only have 1 database and I never clone
songs. As I'm going through all of the songs, it is strange and
there is no rhyme or reason why there are 2 of some songs. I
thought it was the new songs until I saw some of the old songs we have
never even sung that there are 2 of.
3/7/2006 1:56:09 PM
You actually do have more than one database. You have the song select database. Then you have the song show + stock hymns database and the Christmas songs database. My guess is one is a stock hymn and one is from song select.
3/7/2006 2:03:02 PM
How do I find out where they are then? I looked under my computer
and couldn't find any subfolders with those titles.
3/7/2006 2:05:07 PM
Here's your path to the song show extra databases, they are located within this folder
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\R-Technics\SongShow Plus\ModuleData\Additional Databases
3/7/2006 2:07:17 PM
Are you using 7.0? I don't have a module data in that folder. I'm using 5.5.
3/7/2006 2:09:45 PM
Actually, yes, all the machines have been upgraded, but let me see if I can remember where they are in 5.5 (if not I can always install that on another machine and find them for you)
3/7/2006 2:38:03 PM
After a much thorough search, I am fairly certain we only have a songshow plus database at this time.
3/7/2006 2:48:19 PM
Oh, Karen, I don't mean to be a Jeramiah, however, from reading some of your threads today I feel nervous for you. You seem to be having some of the same problems we have been having, which is why we upgraded to V7. Go back to pg 2 or 3 in the forum and look for "multiple ssp problems and failures". I also posted our woes on WMM. If any of our problems ring a bell or yours get worse you may be forced to uninstall V5.5 and install V7.
In order not to corrupt our database, I made a giant song program of all the User Hymns > Print Program > Copy to HTML > pasted to a Word Doc > highligted that and copied > pasted to a new word document--I know this sounds redundant, however, it was the only way to get rid of all the boxes around the songs.> text only > Save
Now, I can just cut and paste the songs--already formatted, punctuated etc and only need to go to CCLI to get the author and copyright info.
If you decide to uninstall 5.5, you have to do a thorough uninstall, which has 4 parts. Call tech support and they will tell you how. Make your you ask them how to get to the Applications folder. It may be hidden.
V7 is quite nice and is not that much different to use.
In order not to corrupt our database, I made a giant song program of all the User Hymns > Print Program > Copy to HTML > pasted to a Word Doc > highligted that and copied > pasted to a new word document--I know this sounds redundant, however, it was the only way to get rid of all the boxes around the songs.> text only > Save
Now, I can just cut and paste the songs--already formatted, punctuated etc and only need to go to CCLI to get the author and copyright info.
If you decide to uninstall 5.5, you have to do a thorough uninstall, which has 4 parts. Call tech support and they will tell you how. Make your you ask them how to get to the Applications folder. It may be hidden.
V7 is quite nice and is not that much different to use.
3/7/2006 2:50:10 PM
Try the Songs tab at the top of the screen > if there is a "Show" > choose "Collections" That's where it is in V7.
3/7/2006 3:10:21 PM
Ok, I did find the collections and it looks like we have several
databases. But, the one song, Blessed be Your Name is in there
twice in the same database.
3/7/2006 3:24:20 PM
Posted By Karen39 on 03/07/2006 3:10 PM
Ok, I did find the collections and it looks like we have several databases. But, the one song, Blessed be Your Name is in there twice in the same database.
Ok, I did find the collections and it looks like we have several databases. But, the one song, Blessed be Your Name is in there twice in the same database.
That one's good enough that it's worth having twice.
(getting punchy after a long day at work)
3/7/2006 3:39:49 PM
Oh, I totally agree! I love that song. It is some of the others we don't need in there twice 
3/7/2006 6:04:17 PM
I'm with Joel on this one. You'll probably find that the songs
are in different databases. It's only if you clone a song and put
the cloned copy into the same database as the original that you'll get
the (2) added to the title.
3/7/2006 8:28:10 PM
If you have a (2) after a song, there are 2 copies of the song in the same database.
3/8/2006 12:16:49 AM
You can also have the same song title but in two different collections.
3/8/2006 4:41:48 AM
If there are several entries with the same name, you can put the one you want to use most of the time (or all of the time 
) in the short list and keep track of it that way.
) in the short list and keep track of it that way.3/8/2006 5:29:05 AM
Well, I don't have a (2) after it and I have the same song twice in a collection. This discussion came up because we didn't think Songshow Plus supported that. We thought it automatically would put a (2) after it when that happened. At least, that used to be what SSP used to do.
3/8/2006 6:10:47 AM
After I posted my question re (2) in a cloned song I talked to David Rencher at RTechnics. Apparently, V7 is also supposed to put (2) after a cloned song within the same database, but for some reason doesn't. RTechnics will look into it.
3/8/2006 6:28:41 AM
I think the confusion comes from not understanding how collections and databases exist on the disk. I know I was totally confused for awhile, so last week I looked into it just to understand some of it.
As pointed out, there is the Stock Hymns database and the SongShow Plus database (and SongSelect if you have it, but that one is over in a third-party application).
The Stock Hymns database is in:
.../SongShow Plus/ModuleData/Additional Databases/Stock Hymns/Songs
The SongShow Plus database is in:
.../SongShow Plus/Songs
Songs in the respective databases exists as a file in this format:
Collection.Title.sbsong or Collection.Title (Xxx).sbsong
Knowing no file can have the same file name, it becomes obvious that two songs with identical titles must either be in different directories (folders), or members of different collections.
I am partially guessing, but based on my testing, when saving a new song having the same title as an existing song, SSP works as follows:
1. If they are in the same database but the collection is different, no (2) is appended.
2. If they are in the same database and the collection is the same, (2) is appended.
3. If the databases are different, the collection is ignored and no (2) is appended.
I also observed that sometimes a collection named (none) is created and sometimes no collection or dot is added. I didn't pursue this. I'm also a little vague regarding how SSP treats collection ABC in the Stock Hymns database differently from collection ABC in the SongShow database; sometimes they seem to be treated as entirely independent collections even though they have the same name.
Hoping this helps reduce some confusion...
As pointed out, there is the Stock Hymns database and the SongShow Plus database (and SongSelect if you have it, but that one is over in a third-party application).
The Stock Hymns database is in:
.../SongShow Plus/ModuleData/Additional Databases/Stock Hymns/Songs
The SongShow Plus database is in:
.../SongShow Plus/Songs
Songs in the respective databases exists as a file in this format:
Collection.Title.sbsong or Collection.Title (Xxx).sbsong
Knowing no file can have the same file name, it becomes obvious that two songs with identical titles must either be in different directories (folders), or members of different collections.
I am partially guessing, but based on my testing, when saving a new song having the same title as an existing song, SSP works as follows:
1. If they are in the same database but the collection is different, no (2) is appended.
2. If they are in the same database and the collection is the same, (2) is appended.
3. If the databases are different, the collection is ignored and no (2) is appended.
I also observed that sometimes a collection named (none) is created and sometimes no collection or dot is added. I didn't pursue this. I'm also a little vague regarding how SSP treats collection ABC in the Stock Hymns database differently from collection ABC in the SongShow database; sometimes they seem to be treated as entirely independent collections even though they have the same name.
Hoping this helps reduce some confusion...
3/8/2006 8:09:05 AM
Thanks, Lee.
Here is an interesting thought. I have another thread where I had trouble editing a song because the error said, "song already exists in database". I wonder if this has anything to do with that. I wonder if somehow SSP is having trouble with adding the song and the 2 so it is giving me that error. I never had these problems with SSP until I updated everything from Christmas. However, it doesn't happen on my laptop. Then again, I don't project with my laptop either.
I don't know, just a thought.
Here is an interesting thought. I have another thread where I had trouble editing a song because the error said, "song already exists in database". I wonder if this has anything to do with that. I wonder if somehow SSP is having trouble with adding the song and the 2 so it is giving me that error. I never had these problems with SSP until I updated everything from Christmas. However, it doesn't happen on my laptop. Then again, I don't project with my laptop either.
I don't know, just a thought.
3/8/2006 5:20:32 PM
Ok, I am at church and fixed it. Here is what I did. I looked for the song "Here is Our King" which wouldn't let me edit it on the fly. There were 2 of them listed. One under the collection "user hymns" and the other under the collection "none". I deleted the song under the collection "none". Now it will let me edit it on the fly without the error "song already exists in database". Weird, huh?
I wonder if anybody from SSP has any ideas as to why this is happening?
I wonder if anybody from SSP has any ideas as to why this is happening?
3/8/2006 11:55:16 PM
5.5 seems to have a few issues when it comes to the stock and user hymns. Due to changes in how the Stock Hymns are provided in V7 now, these issues should be resolved.
3/8/2006 11:55:51 PM
Posted By wizardkees on 03/08/2006 6:10 AM
After I posted my question re (2) in a cloned song I talked to David Rencher at RTechnics. Apparently, V7 is also supposed to put (2) after a cloned song within the same database, but for some reason doesn't. RTechnics will fix that anomaly.
After I posted my question re (2) in a cloned song I talked to David Rencher at RTechnics. Apparently, V7 is also supposed to put (2) after a cloned song within the same database, but for some reason doesn't. RTechnics will fix that anomaly.
I hope David can demonstrate this for me. I just did a quick test and SSP 7 is performing as expected.
3/9/2006 5:47:14 AM
Awesome, thanks! 
:
:3/9/2006 8:38:53 AM
Posted By wizardkees on 03/08/2006 6:10 AM
After I posted my question re (2) in a cloned song I talked to David Rencher at RTechnics. Apparently, V7 is also supposed to put (2) after a cloned song within the same database, but for some reason doesn't. RTechnics will fix that anomaly.
I hope David can demonstrate this for me. I just did a quick test and SSP 7 is performing as expected.
After I posted my question re (2) in a cloned song I talked to David Rencher at RTechnics. Apparently, V7 is also supposed to put (2) after a cloned song within the same database, but for some reason doesn't. RTechnics will fix that anomaly.
I hope David can demonstrate this for me. I just did a quick test and SSP 7 is performing as expected.
I went back and cloned another song on the work station computer and this time it did put the (2) next to the clone. The first song I cloned I had put into the SSP database via the clipboard. No (2) appeared with that clone. On the projecton computer, the first clone also did not get (2). This clone was of a song in the Stock Hymn database.
3/9/2006 11:48:51 PM
One change to be aware of: The example songs are distributed in a different way in V7. Now, Stock Hyms are considered their own database. This is better than in 5.5 because you can now more easily install or uninstall those songs if you wish. You can also exlude them from searches more easily. One side effect, however, is that now when you clone a song from the Stock Hymns database into the SSP database, the "(2)" is not appended. This is because SSP looks for any existing song in the target database. If it finds one, it adds the "(2)", otherwise, it doesn't.
4/19/2006 12:22:36 AM
I have had the same issue also. I have one database for our church songs and another for the youth group songs. These are sometimes cloned from one database to the other to allow for different settings The problem I have is that sometimes the songs appear to be cross linked. I edit one in the church database and both appear to change. I delete one and both copies disappear. I rebuild the database and nothing changes. In one instance when I looked at all databases I had 4 copies of the Millenium Prayer listed in the database. It looked as if there were phantom entries in the datgabase. It is rather frustrating.
4/19/2006 9:18:37 AM
Posted By dv on 04/19/2006 12:22 AM
I have had the same issue also. I have one database for our church songs and another for the youth group songs. These are sometimes cloned from one database to the other to allow for different settings The problem I have is that sometimes the songs appear to be cross linked. I edit one in the church database and both appear to change. I delete one and both copies disappear. I rebuild the database and nothing changes. In one instance when I looked at all databases I had 4 copies of the Millenium Prayer listed in the database. It looked as if there were phantom entries in the datgabase. It is rather frustrating.
I have had the same issue also. I have one database for our church songs and another for the youth group songs. These are sometimes cloned from one database to the other to allow for different settings The problem I have is that sometimes the songs appear to be cross linked. I edit one in the church database and both appear to change. I delete one and both copies disappear. I rebuild the database and nothing changes. In one instance when I looked at all databases I had 4 copies of the Millenium Prayer listed in the database. It looked as if there were phantom entries in the datgabase. It is rather frustrating.
Having experienced this in the past, I only copy songs, and then create new from the clipboard. If you need further instructions on how to do this, let me know and I will provide it.
4/20/2006 11:37:06 PM
Thanks for the offer. I have been using SSP for about 4 years now. Cloning in itself is not the issue I believe but subsequent editing of the files, changing to other databases, and the databse appearing to get out of sync appears to be the issue.
Deleting all crosslinked items, rebuilding the database (sometimes twice) and then recreating the song appears to fix things. On one occassion I needed to close SSP then restart it and rebuild the database to fix things.
My biggest problem is that while I am responsible for SSP and the church laptop - there are about 5 others who operate and this has at times been the source of the problems. I just get the cleanup job.
David
Deleting all crosslinked items, rebuilding the database (sometimes twice) and then recreating the song appears to fix things. On one occassion I needed to close SSP then restart it and rebuild the database to fix things.
My biggest problem is that while I am responsible for SSP and the church laptop - there are about 5 others who operate and this has at times been the source of the problems. I just get the cleanup job.
David
To post messages to the forums you must be signed in to a user account.